| What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : mikey (---.pool1.Enfield-GLN3000-BAS0001.orangeh)
posts : 367
Date : 05-12-08 11:58
Any comments on the following BG Lovers?Have a good week!The BG forums are very dinamic on this issue
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : Andie (---.ukonline.co.uk)
posts : 820
Date : 05-12-08 13:34
"" Economists say corruption is damaging Bulgaria's investment image and competitiveness. ""
Tell us something new Mikey - most people who have had (or thinking of having in the future) personal interest in Bulgaria, financial or otherwise, have been more than aware of this for some time. News would be if they ever manage to get things sorted out.
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : Daniel Snell (---.184.pn.adsl.brightview.com)
posts : 4884
Date : 05-12-08 14:14
Yawn! corruption in an Eastern european country oh the shock and horror of it all.
Let me guess Mikey,Mikey for your next post you will be telling us that Italy has a small Mafia problem?
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : arron (---.lei3.cable.ntl.com)
posts : 2121
Date : 05-12-08 19:26
Not gonna go to Italy then. Cheers Dan
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : Welshy (167.83.9.---)
posts : 120
Date : 05-12-08 19:45
Well reading that it doesnt sound good - anyone saying the opposite cannot be serious!
I have never seen any suspicious looking people while on holiday there but clearly that is no basis for the reality. I have however noticed many top end Merc AMG 6.3ltr V12's Both Saloons & 4x4's. Now these are not cheap cars and I see more over there than I have so far in the S/E of UK which I'd say is pretty wealthy. Also its highlighted more possibly by the fact so many locals have far far lesser cars, i.e. in the UK it appears that on average cars on the UK roads are around the £20k mark and average age seems to be within 4 years old, Bulgaria from my experiance the cars seem to have average age of nearer 12-15 years maybe more and within that far far far more 30 odd year old lada's in the UK Not sure when I last saw a Metro, Austin Princess, Austin Maestro etc.
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : sam (---.nott.cable.ntl.com)
posts : 3674
Date : 05-12-08 22:16
there is corruption everywhere, so Mikey whats your point?
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : sam (---.nott.cable.ntl.com)
posts : 3674
Date : 05-12-08 22:18
sorry I ment to say crime, Take it you don't travel to many large Uk cities then Mikey!!!
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : fraser (---.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
posts : 217
Date : 05-13-08 12:41
a small point, i really do get the hump when people talk economics with not the smallest concept of what theyre talking about.
The average car in the uk IS a lot newer than Bg, and why??? because the average household debt in the UK is some 300 yes 300 times(excluding Mortgages!!!!) that of BG, now wheres the sense in that??
ps they sell more Porche Cayennes in BG than Germany!!
pps the population of BG is less than that of London!!
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : Welshy (167.83.9.---)
posts : 120
Date : 05-13-08 13:42
Fraser - my point was to highlight the fact that there is a significant GAP between the ave motorist and form what I have seen many Black Merc AMG 6.3 V12's all with blacked out windows.
I have seen more of these machines in Bulgaria than I have in the S.E. Uk....
You have reiterated my point about ave car age - not sure why as I though it was pretty clear from what I stated.
Interesting point you say that average household debt in the UK is 300 times that of Bulgaria. Please note that in the UK there are 12 million Mortgages and of those the average outstanding debt on the property is 44%. Another thing to note is that there are minimum 25million properties in the UK therefore 13million are totally debt free.
One thing you also fail to illustrate is that at the end of communism in Bulgaria the whole country was split up and given to the public so clearly they wouldnt have any debt unless they had decided to buy additional property/bigger property.
Finally Given that say in Bansko the minimum Apartment starting point is E60k this highlights a bit of an issue, either the average salary is incorrect and that in reality it is far higher Or it is correct and if that is the case then no local bulgarians will ever be able to afford any of these properties.
PS the size of BG is barely bigger than Wales
PPS per capita it is much more densly populated than Wales
PPPS The whole point of the article was to highlight worrying issues, these may exist in Italy however they certainly do not in the UK andif found out in the UK jail for fraud/organised crime is the result.
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : fraser (---.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
posts : 217
Date : 05-13-08 17:53
i dont want to harp on ,,,but come on the UK has the highest average use of Cocaine in the EU, and theres no organised crime?? people traffiking....no organised crime.......money laundering, prostitution, are you living in a differant world?? of course theres organised crime and gang warfare here just read the papers, we get all excitied when some 'mafia boss' gets gunned down in BG but someone gets gunned down or stabbed alot more frequently in London than in BG.
Nowwheres perfect, but you need to take off the blinkers and read about the UK, maybe from abroad, youll get a differant perspective 
ps of the TOTAL housing stock in the UK dont forget a significant amount are not owner occupied!! theres lies damn lies and then theres statistics 
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : sam (---.nott.cable.ntl.com)
posts : 3674
Date : 05-13-08 21:09
and when I look out of my window I see unicorns and fluffy clouds, or at least thats what most of us seem to see. two murders in three days in London, not bad for no crime.
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : Alcoholic who no longer smokes but lo (---.lei3.cable.ntl.com)
posts : 8
Date : 05-13-08 22:22
Bg the size of Wales? I think it's more like the size of England
BG 110 000km2
EN 130 400km2
Wales 20 800 km2
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : mrTeetotal (---.cable.ubr01.barn.blueyonder.co.uk)
posts : 78
Date : 05-14-08 00:28
3 murders in 36hrs here out of a population of 180000.
Bring back Maggie.
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : mcemu (78.147.157.---)
posts : 30
Date : 05-14-08 00:50
where is here?.. mr teetotal ,that has a population of 180000???
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : mikey (---.pool1.unallocated-107-0.orangehomeds)
posts : 367
Date : 05-14-08 16:58
Fraser there are available forms to become Bulgarian citizen >BG needs you!!
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : Banknote (---.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
posts : 556
Date : 05-15-08 12:34
Get me one while you're there please Fraser...
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : Welshy (167.83.9.---)
posts : 120
Date : 05-15-08 13:20
Fraser - and your point is?
Of course there is crime everywhere - however certain types of crime i.e. Mafia within Govt/influencing Govt is a concern to any potential investor & I have a couple of places there myself so I have no vested interest in Rubbishing the place however I find it worrying especially if the EU hold back the huge grants to upgrade the infrasture. Imagine how many jobs will be at risk...
So far Ive been very impressed - when I first went the road was shockingly bad from Sofia to Bansko - however now from the outskirts of Sofia its brand new all the way/indifferent from the UK.
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : mikey (---.pool1.unallocated-107-0.orangehomeds)
posts : 367
Date : 05-15-08 13:28
Daniel 'one of the moderators',
Are you supposed to engage or to keep moderating if anybody posts rude contents etc?
Fraser
how many days in total you have been in BG until now. Fire up the number, please and let me calculate after that how precise your comments are.
Keep on selling !
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : fraser (---.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
posts : 217
Date : 05-15-08 14:23
Mikey on your calculations as too how much you skied this season i think ive spent 425 days out of the last 365 in BG  , currently i spend over half the year in BG, how about you??
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : mikey (---.pool1.unallocated-107-0.orangehomeds)
posts : 367
Date : 05-15-08 23:02
Good Fraser
I kind of like you.
so are we talking one calendar year, decade, few decades or more?
you must be very very quick learner you must be absolutely fluent in Bulgarian to hear and understand every angle of every story.I put my hat down.
hope you know by now everything about BG there is to know.
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : ian (---.as43234.net)
posts : 401
Date : 05-16-08 00:36
Why do so may people on this site have their heads in the sand? The countyside of Bg is very pleasant, and people enjoy themselves there on the snow and mountains. But the people of Bulgaria are spioling it for the very people who could make their lives more afluent in a modest, progresive way. But the people of Bulgria just want to rip us off. it happens, accept it, don't live in denial.
I bought there hoping to make money, but not at the expense of the local population. The foreign money coming into places like Bansko means that shed loads of builders are employed. more cash would flow into shops and restaurants in the area and over time the area would be up and coming, but the area isn't that good by itself, it's not as good as Mayrhofen for boarders, or the Three Valleys for diversity, so it has to have an edge, something to attract people , to compete with.....Good value, lower cost, good accomodation facilities.
If the locals are greedy and rip off the tourists, they will not return.
Based on the inflation in Bansko over the last two years then Bansko by next year will be more expensive to eat and drink in than a lot of other resorts . I can generaly eat out for a more reasonable cost in my home town than is charged in Pirin Street, and with less fear of a scam, and, not fall down a colapsed drain cover on the way home.
Good business is giving good value in the niche market you are working in. I will be returning to see my appartments when they are completed, but i'm not sure that i would if i didn't own there.
Instaed of pretending there is no problem, groups of interested people should act more like a lobby group to try to improve things for all our sakes. Being "negative" can be a very positive approach. Being in denial is deadly. It's not a crime to admit some things are wrong, but it is a moral crime to ignore it.
Corruption does somtimes happen in British town halls, but we deal with it, not live with it.
Please accept the reality........Ian
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : ian (---.as43234.net)
posts : 401
Date : 05-16-08 01:01
A copy and paste:-
EU ready to ostracise Bulgaria -report
18:03 Sat 10 May 2008 - Alex Bivol
The European Union has lost faith in the ability of Bulgarian authorities to push ahead with reforms and was considering sanctions, ranging from freezing the 6.7 billion euro worth of structural funding the country is set to receive until 2013 to suspending some of its rights in the bloc, Bulgarian-language Kapital weekly reported on May 10.
Under article 7 of the Treaty of Nice, in case of "a serious and persistent breach of fundamental rights", the Council of the EU may, by a qualified majority of four fifths and co-ordinating with the European Parliament, suspend certain of the rights of the country concerned, including the right to vote in the Council of the EU.
In Bulgaria's case, the fundamental rights being breached would be the rule of law, undermined by Bulgaria's slow progress in reforming its judiciary, as highlighted by the scores of unsolved public murders in recent years, the weekly said.
Although Bulgarian politicians are acting unconcerned, the measure is already being discussed in some European capitals, according to Kapital.
For now, however, financial sanctions appeared more likely, with the idea of freezing structural funding to Bulgaria gaining support across the EU, one German diplomat told the weekly.
Among the countries lobbying most actively for freeze funding until Sofia can prove that the money will end up where it is supposed to, rather than with organised crime, are Britain Germany, the Netherlands, Austria, Sweden and Finland, the same source said.
The EU could do so preventively, even without proven cases of embezzlement, given that the money has only been allocated and is yet to be spent, Kapital said. The European Commission has already frozen funding under all EU pre-accession aid programmes in recent months on suspicions of fraud and embezzlement.
Not only did Bulgaria fail to make sufficient progress with reform, its politicians routinely ignored criticism from Brussels, according to Kapital.
In Romania, the structural problems in government are much worse, but the behaviour of Bulgarian politicians in the EU was exceptionally presumptuous and disrespectful. They believe themselves untouchable and that nothing can happen to them regardless of what they do, which is why Bulgaria will suffer the consequences, not Romania," the weekly quoted one British diplomat as saying.
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : scapula (78.147.157.---)
posts : 16
Date : 05-16-08 01:32
well said Ian nicely put and thought out makes complete sense
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : john Dq (---.freedom2surf.net)
posts : 1
Date : 05-16-08 09:52
1st of All,
Alot of the expensive cars are people visiting the area, and alot are Greek, you should see the border! and Bulgaria is Much Much bigger than wales.
But yes Bulgaria is still pretty corrupt, but its like that still in Greece and in some places the UK, Just look at our own government here in the UK!
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : Mat (---.sofia.cabletel.bg)
posts : 483
Date : 05-16-08 14:52
Well, I would say I see very few top end Greek registered cars - most are very average. the rich greeks are in Austria skiing and bansko takes the poor Greeks from across the border (the poorest area of Greece).
And we know there is corruption everywhere, but that doesn't mean we should accept it. Its such a terrible problem in BG that its really starting to affect the development of the state and country as a whole. The place is never going to get to an EU standard unless this curse is broken and there is no sign of any willingness whatsoever at the moment.
*sigh*
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| re: What do you think?...from Reuters |
Author : mikey (---.pool1.unallocated-107-0.orangehomeds)
posts : 367
Date : 05-17-08 04:05
.....Instead of pretending there is no problem, groups of interested people should act more like a lobby group to try to improve things for all our sakes.
Being "negative" can be a very positive approach.
Being in denial is DEADLY.
It's not a crime to admit some things are wrong, but it is a moral crime to ignore it. ....
Very well said Ian.
Where are you now all of you regulars, estate agents and advertisers on that? A,F,P,C,B,D's and others??
Have you all moved to some 'strictly and only positive forum' C'mon lets us know where that is.
Any comments now?
Mat
In my establishments come and stay only the very poor Greeks Turks and sometimes twisted westerners-not knowing where they are what they are to expect etc.If you live in Norhtern greece and to drive to something like ski place is couple of hours it is treated as a change .
I have never had a loaded family say hotel owner or company owner.They wainly go to Bulagria to experience some weird few hours and thats it.
They know very well where to go and spend their hard earned rest days skiing.Just cross the sea and drive to destinations in the Alps or just fly direct and easy.
I think the same as you-there is no willingness in BG at the moment to change anything.
still the old song:
-milk maximum until this is possible and after that - the hell with it.move on.
Problem is that in the middle of everything there will be a lot of dissapoined people, investors which already actually are etc.
I meet all the time investors in BG which now just want to cash in and get out and delete this adventure from their life.
The new investors at the moment are few and far between almost gone completely, so that's why beeing in denial is just stupid.
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