Bulgaria Ski discussion board
Bad ski's
Author:
posts : 13 (Beginner)Date : 01-15-09 13:31Bad ski's
Ok so following advice from people on here I have resisted the urge to go and buy myself some ski's after reading some bad reports on the standard of ski's the hire places are giving out in Borovets.So to make sure I get a decent pair what should I be looking for?
I've done a week's skiing and a dozen or so days at xscape but to be honest, to me one ski is much the same as another so just need to know what to look out for.
Thanks,
Rams.
re: Bad ski's
I posted a thread about this last year ... I'm going to have a search for itre: Bad ski's
Author : Robert TK (---.viponair.com)
posts : 685
Date : 02-14-08 17:12
Simple really, and this goes for boards as well as skis, (I used to work in rental when I was a poor student)
First of all, do they look as if they've had a beating, are the graphics scratched, are they dirty? Dirt not only makes them look bad, it effects the ability of the bindings to release properly.
Now look at the base to make sure it's undamaged, or that if any marks have been patched or ptex'd (a ...
posts : 685
Date : 02-14-08 17:12
Simple really, and this goes for boards as well as skis, (I used to work in rental when I was a poor student)
First of all, do they look as if they've had a beating, are the graphics scratched, are they dirty? Dirt not only makes them look bad, it effects the ability of the bindings to release properly.
Now look at the base to make sure it's undamaged, or that if any marks have been patched or ptex'd (a ...
Author : Robert TK (---.viponair.com)
posts : 685
Date : 02-14-08 17:12
Simple really, and this goes for boards as well as skis, (I used to work in rental when I was a poor student)
First of all, do they look as if they've had a beating, are the graphics scratched, are they dirty? Dirt not only makes them look bad, it effects the ability of the bindings to release properly.
Now look at the base to make sure it's undamaged, or that if any marks have been patched or ptex'd (a composite that's melted into any holes or deep scratches and then made flush with the base). Any deep groves or holes, send them back ... you can get away with the odd scratch now and again, and you'll be lucky to get an umblemished pair this late in the season.
Now run the back of your fingernail against parts of the edge by flicking it lightly, paying particular attention to the edge between the bindings ... does it shave off a tiny part of your nail? If not, it's not sharp enough to dig in when you really need it.
Then we get to the bindings ... but that's a whole new post.
... continued
Ok, so they're clean(-ish), no major holes (or any major holes repaired) and sharp.
Also, they're the right size for you. Two schools of thought on this, the older boys will tell you for straight skis, neck height for beginner, head height for intermediate, bigger than you for expert.
Carving skis use the same rough guide as snowboards, at a height somewhere between your chin and mouth, give or take a few inches.
OK, bindings in a moment ...
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : Robert TK (---.viponair.com)
posts : 685
Date : 02-14-08 19:18
Bindings
There are big differences between hire bindings and ones you'll buy for yourself. Rental bindings are designed to be moved around and altered a lot so they tend to wear out a lot quicker.
Basics first ...
Bindings are essentially two springs that hold your boot between them. If the boot remains straight they'll keep it in place but if there's any sideways pressure, they'll release the boot ...basically holding the boot while you're skiing properly but firing you out if you have a twisting fall.
In order to work properly they have to be clean, lubricated (only an issue after a few years use), and at the right setting.
The amount of pressure the springs place on your boot is measured by the DIN (stands for something along the lines of Deutsche Industrial Norm - something German anyway) There are flow charts to follow based on height, weight, boot size and ability, but most hire shops will 'guesstimate' to save time ... usually setting the DIN between 4 and 8 depending on how heavy you look ... and actaully 9 times out of 10 they'll get it right ... but how do you avoid being that 1 in 10 who's skis don't come off or keep popping out.
I'll get indepth in a moment, but basically, put your boot in it (without your foot in it) click it shut, and hit it with the heel of your hand. If in two or three heavy thumps it comes out, it's in the right area. If it comes out first time have them turned up, if it's stuck solid, have them turned down. You can do this yourself with a screwdriver, but best to let a ski tech do it.
A wee bit more indepth
Ok, rental bindings are designed to be altered quickly so they're fairly easy to adjust yourself (although if in doubt get someone qualified to do it). At the back of the heel piece there will be a catch that you lift up to adjust the position ... make sure it grabs the heel of the boot.
Secondly, the numbers should be the same at the toe and heel (although I'll contradict this in a second). It works as one unit, and if it doesn't have equal pressure front and back it won't work.
Not a lot of people know this bit ... you can tell it's at the right pressure by looking at the heel. On most makes of rental binding, at the bottom and one one or both sides there will be a small hole. Inside, if the binding is set correctly, you'll be able to see a small metal pin when you put a boot in the binding. Later in the season the springs wear out at different speeds, so to get the pin in the middle you might have to make slight adjustments to front and back, but I'm talking about something like 4.5 at the front 4.9 at the back, only small increments. Any more than that and they're buggered!
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : Borogirl (---.range86-139.btcentralplus.com)
posts : 1500
Date : 02-14-08 19:22
WOW - give me a few minutes to commit to memory and then there'll be holding me back on the slopes.
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : Robert TK (---.viponair.com)
posts : 685
Date : 02-14-08 19:28
Joe, the weight thing has far more to do with board flex that length ... the lighter you are, the softer the flex. Heavier you are the stiffer the board.
The general rule of thumb is between nose and chin, taking into account your boot size in case of toe/heel drag.
On the other hand, the board doesn't know how tall you are, but does know how heavy you are, so if the rider is a bit muscly or portly I'd add a few inches so it doesn't keep skiding out all over the place, same with really tall, skinny folk, I'd take off a few inches so they'd get some control, but it's absolutely height first, then things like weight, riding style (park or mountain) shoe size, etc etc.
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : paul (---.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
posts : 1371
Date : 02-14-08 19:29
going slightly off here, i have quite wide feet,
do ordinary sized boots accomodate this?
presumably you just clip the boot less tight accross your toes than you do up on your heel and calf?
is this right?
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : Robert TK (---.viponair.com)
posts : 685
Date : 02-14-08 19:36
Fecking hell this board needs a spell checker!
Tim, they're only usually that sharp after a serious service, a skim across the sander and an 'edge'. The amount of cuts I used to get was unreal. But if you hit an icy ptach you'll be glad of that wee extra bite!
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : Robert TK (---.viponair.com)
posts : 685
Date : 02-14-08 19:39
Not sure about wide feet other than avoid Salomon rental boots ... the ones we had were designed for people with no big toes. Anyone else?
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : frank (90.208.239.---)
posts : 218
Date : 02-14-08 19:58
haha...i love this stuff
robert..youre a boarder yeah?? please explain about de-tuning your board and waxing
cheers
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : tiger tim (---.ipt.aol.com)
posts : 1350
Date : 02-14-08 20:13
Rob ur right there mate,the skis i used were Frasers last yr,and had just been serviced..
Tiger
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : shefellover (---.proxy.aol.com)
posts : 114
Date : 02-14-08 20:46
Went to Pamps last year and we had to pester the bloke to do the settings as he didnt even look at us.
At Kendal outdoor ski when we 1st turned up we had our weight,height and boot size looked at then the settings were applied. Same at Chill Factoree seems like afew minutes taken out for Customer Care could save a broken bone later on in the holiday!
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : fraser (---.btc-net.bg)
posts : 281
Date : 02-14-08 21:00
you get what you pay for basically, weve had to dump the hire skiis that some of our 'guests' have turned up with as you cant polish a t**d and to be honest some of the rental gear is well well past its sell by date
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : Robert TK (---.range86-156.btcentralplus.com)
posts : 685
Date : 02-14-08 21:51
I'm a boarder now yes ... gave up skiing long ago and eventually became a snowboard instructor, just ASSI though (Artificial surface) at the local dry slope and Braehead Xscape. Not good enough for the BASI course yet, and knees getting past it!
Was also a ski tech for a while but we used to outsource our boards as we didn't have the correct gear to service them, so a bit in the dark about proper board tuning as it happens! I found a guy up the road that does a half service for £20 ... light skim on the grinder, wax and edge, so I don't bother anymore.
The basics of detuning are that you want to take the edge off the bits that don't have to be sharp, the top and tail, and a wee bit down the edge so that the board turns properly, the theory is that the board will grip an edge sooner than you'd like and can effect riding ... not convinced it makes an enormous difference, but it just involves taking a file to the edges you want to blunt ... get someone else to do it. Same with waxing unless you want to ruin your iron!
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : Eggy (---.range86-164.btcentralplus.com)
posts : 19
Date : 02-15-08 11:03
Thanks Robert for all the advice, think I'll print this thread off and use it to revise......if anyone's in a rental shop on 2nd March in Borovets and there's a slightly balding bloke with glasses holding up the queue for the gear......that will be me checking my stuff
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : Robert TK (---.viponair.com)
posts : 685
Date : 02-15-08 12:19
http://www.dinsetting.com/
Handy website here, wish it'd been around when I was a ski grunt.
posts : 685
Date : 02-14-08 17:12
Simple really, and this goes for boards as well as skis, (I used to work in rental when I was a poor student)
First of all, do they look as if they've had a beating, are the graphics scratched, are they dirty? Dirt not only makes them look bad, it effects the ability of the bindings to release properly.
Now look at the base to make sure it's undamaged, or that if any marks have been patched or ptex'd (a composite that's melted into any holes or deep scratches and then made flush with the base). Any deep groves or holes, send them back ... you can get away with the odd scratch now and again, and you'll be lucky to get an umblemished pair this late in the season.
Now run the back of your fingernail against parts of the edge by flicking it lightly, paying particular attention to the edge between the bindings ... does it shave off a tiny part of your nail? If not, it's not sharp enough to dig in when you really need it.
Then we get to the bindings ... but that's a whole new post.
... continued
Ok, so they're clean(-ish), no major holes (or any major holes repaired) and sharp.
Also, they're the right size for you. Two schools of thought on this, the older boys will tell you for straight skis, neck height for beginner, head height for intermediate, bigger than you for expert.
Carving skis use the same rough guide as snowboards, at a height somewhere between your chin and mouth, give or take a few inches.
OK, bindings in a moment ...
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : Robert TK (---.viponair.com)
posts : 685
Date : 02-14-08 19:18
Bindings
There are big differences between hire bindings and ones you'll buy for yourself. Rental bindings are designed to be moved around and altered a lot so they tend to wear out a lot quicker.
Basics first ...
Bindings are essentially two springs that hold your boot between them. If the boot remains straight they'll keep it in place but if there's any sideways pressure, they'll release the boot ...basically holding the boot while you're skiing properly but firing you out if you have a twisting fall.
In order to work properly they have to be clean, lubricated (only an issue after a few years use), and at the right setting.
The amount of pressure the springs place on your boot is measured by the DIN (stands for something along the lines of Deutsche Industrial Norm - something German anyway) There are flow charts to follow based on height, weight, boot size and ability, but most hire shops will 'guesstimate' to save time ... usually setting the DIN between 4 and 8 depending on how heavy you look ... and actaully 9 times out of 10 they'll get it right ... but how do you avoid being that 1 in 10 who's skis don't come off or keep popping out.
I'll get indepth in a moment, but basically, put your boot in it (without your foot in it) click it shut, and hit it with the heel of your hand. If in two or three heavy thumps it comes out, it's in the right area. If it comes out first time have them turned up, if it's stuck solid, have them turned down. You can do this yourself with a screwdriver, but best to let a ski tech do it.
A wee bit more indepth
Ok, rental bindings are designed to be altered quickly so they're fairly easy to adjust yourself (although if in doubt get someone qualified to do it). At the back of the heel piece there will be a catch that you lift up to adjust the position ... make sure it grabs the heel of the boot.
Secondly, the numbers should be the same at the toe and heel (although I'll contradict this in a second). It works as one unit, and if it doesn't have equal pressure front and back it won't work.
Not a lot of people know this bit ... you can tell it's at the right pressure by looking at the heel. On most makes of rental binding, at the bottom and one one or both sides there will be a small hole. Inside, if the binding is set correctly, you'll be able to see a small metal pin when you put a boot in the binding. Later in the season the springs wear out at different speeds, so to get the pin in the middle you might have to make slight adjustments to front and back, but I'm talking about something like 4.5 at the front 4.9 at the back, only small increments. Any more than that and they're buggered!
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : Borogirl (---.range86-139.btcentralplus.com)
posts : 1500
Date : 02-14-08 19:22
WOW - give me a few minutes to commit to memory and then there'll be holding me back on the slopes.
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : Robert TK (---.viponair.com)
posts : 685
Date : 02-14-08 19:28
Joe, the weight thing has far more to do with board flex that length ... the lighter you are, the softer the flex. Heavier you are the stiffer the board.
The general rule of thumb is between nose and chin, taking into account your boot size in case of toe/heel drag.
On the other hand, the board doesn't know how tall you are, but does know how heavy you are, so if the rider is a bit muscly or portly I'd add a few inches so it doesn't keep skiding out all over the place, same with really tall, skinny folk, I'd take off a few inches so they'd get some control, but it's absolutely height first, then things like weight, riding style (park or mountain) shoe size, etc etc.
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : paul (---.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
posts : 1371
Date : 02-14-08 19:29
going slightly off here, i have quite wide feet,
do ordinary sized boots accomodate this?
presumably you just clip the boot less tight accross your toes than you do up on your heel and calf?
is this right?
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : Robert TK (---.viponair.com)
posts : 685
Date : 02-14-08 19:36
Fecking hell this board needs a spell checker!
Tim, they're only usually that sharp after a serious service, a skim across the sander and an 'edge'. The amount of cuts I used to get was unreal. But if you hit an icy ptach you'll be glad of that wee extra bite!
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : Robert TK (---.viponair.com)
posts : 685
Date : 02-14-08 19:39
Not sure about wide feet other than avoid Salomon rental boots ... the ones we had were designed for people with no big toes. Anyone else?
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : frank (90.208.239.---)
posts : 218
Date : 02-14-08 19:58
haha...i love this stuff
robert..youre a boarder yeah?? please explain about de-tuning your board and waxing
cheers
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : tiger tim (---.ipt.aol.com)
posts : 1350
Date : 02-14-08 20:13
Rob ur right there mate,the skis i used were Frasers last yr,and had just been serviced..
Tiger
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : shefellover (---.proxy.aol.com)
posts : 114
Date : 02-14-08 20:46
Went to Pamps last year and we had to pester the bloke to do the settings as he didnt even look at us.
At Kendal outdoor ski when we 1st turned up we had our weight,height and boot size looked at then the settings were applied. Same at Chill Factoree seems like afew minutes taken out for Customer Care could save a broken bone later on in the holiday!
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : fraser (---.btc-net.bg)
posts : 281
Date : 02-14-08 21:00
you get what you pay for basically, weve had to dump the hire skiis that some of our 'guests' have turned up with as you cant polish a t**d and to be honest some of the rental gear is well well past its sell by date
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : Robert TK (---.range86-156.btcentralplus.com)
posts : 685
Date : 02-14-08 21:51
I'm a boarder now yes ... gave up skiing long ago and eventually became a snowboard instructor, just ASSI though (Artificial surface) at the local dry slope and Braehead Xscape. Not good enough for the BASI course yet, and knees getting past it!
Was also a ski tech for a while but we used to outsource our boards as we didn't have the correct gear to service them, so a bit in the dark about proper board tuning as it happens! I found a guy up the road that does a half service for £20 ... light skim on the grinder, wax and edge, so I don't bother anymore.
The basics of detuning are that you want to take the edge off the bits that don't have to be sharp, the top and tail, and a wee bit down the edge so that the board turns properly, the theory is that the board will grip an edge sooner than you'd like and can effect riding ... not convinced it makes an enormous difference, but it just involves taking a file to the edges you want to blunt ... get someone else to do it. Same with waxing unless you want to ruin your iron!
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : Eggy (---.range86-164.btcentralplus.com)
posts : 19
Date : 02-15-08 11:03
Thanks Robert for all the advice, think I'll print this thread off and use it to revise......if anyone's in a rental shop on 2nd March in Borovets and there's a slightly balding bloke with glasses holding up the queue for the gear......that will be me checking my stuff
Reply to this message
re: How to tell good Rental Ski's from bad rental ski's
Author : Robert TK (---.viponair.com)
posts : 685
Date : 02-15-08 12:19
http://www.dinsetting.com/
Handy website here, wish it'd been around when I was a ski grunt.
re: Bad ski's
Thanks for that Robert.
re: Bad ski's
Hi, i am travelling on the same flight and been to Boro many times, best advice is if they look clean and in reasonable condition and the edges feel sharp you should be ok, make sure no major gouges on the base or chunks missing. If in doubt ask your instructor and if he is any good then he will argue the point for you, if you have a problem then ask to speak to Krassi Vangelov in the Borosport office by the 4 man chair lift in front of the Rila, he is the ski school manager and a good ...
Hi, i am travelling on the same flight and been to Boro many times, best advice is if they look clean and in reasonable condition and the edges feel sharp you should be ok, make sure no major gouges on the base or chunks missing. If in doubt ask your instructor and if he is any good then he will argue the point for you, if you have a problem then ask to speak to Krassi Vangelov in the Borosport office by the 4 man chair lift in front of the Rila, he is the ski school manager and a good friend,
Hope this helps
Hope this helps
