Bulgaria Ski discussion board

Hi Steve so the way I read what you have suggested as possible are
1. If another gondela were to be built it would go to Shilogarnika
2. If this happens there is a bottleneck at that point so would need more lifts or higher capacity lifts
3. Peak to peak gondelas never going to happen
4. Tadorka is the mountain with the blue 10/11 and the reds leading down the mountain. Your suggesting that the southern side of this mountain is possible for skiing and if so you'd ski down and then come back into the base station which if your looking at the mountain would be to the right of it.

If number 4 is possible could return pistes be both sides of the mountain?

With point number 2 I cannot see them upgrading those lifts they would build another gondela then see what the demand is in each new base station if there is clear evidence of its requirement after a season or two then upgrade else it could be just a nice to have.


I think it's such a crying shame they will not open up mountain on the right should be easiest way to increase usable skiing pistes and reduce congestion quickly.


Also as I suggested the huge plateau to the left of tadorka different mountain could support many many pistes without any tree destruction. Or a totally new additional area.

Gareth don't waste your time with something which is never going to happen in our lifetime.
Pirin is not in Dubai to be buldozed over with Xmas decoration( peak to peak gondola -thats the place where I start the laughing)
After I finish laughing, I calm down and continue:
An avalanche has fallen within 8 seasons in exact the same place almost destroying the buildings on Bunderitsa FACT.
Any atempt to discuss enlargement borders with a Dreamland and dosh which is not there anymore to even engage your brain .
I suggest :-better read non science fiction book for relaxation.
I can fully understand where you are coming from, that with purchasing not one but two properties in Bansko now you want the sky and the payback.
Better stick to pen, calculator and tables.
How many time I have to say that the red academika is on the Bansko's map kist to look pretty and to bump up the kilometers of runs calculated.
There is no other reason!!
Steve
Very well said Pirin mountain is small fry and With steep valleys prone to avalanches .Most of it it is in Reserved National Park so Zero are chances for an expantion.Maybe a little bit something in Dobrinishte,a singular lift here or there but the idea of one hell of a connected ski area is in Plain Bulgarian- B+nkers.
With the gigantic amount of box flats in the Bansko town area which is far away from pistes and it is too LOW and flat as surface approching that town, to be able to make some ways of skiing down to base , the proper ski area above is always going to have problem with queues(one year it is going to be left ,other right, other in the center,
Don't you feel this is a vicious circle ?
Kind of Cancer which is terminal. (Just tap up and prolong the survival.)
Once all of the people who bought into that fantastic dream realise that in reality there is not going to be any expantion of a sort you are all day dreaming, then everybody will benefit -when the numbers of tourists go down(inevitable).
People like Steve who live there deserve a medal.
Honestly.At least you Steve are not trying too hard to fantacise probably because living there is different that just popping few times to visit and touch your tiny patch and keep that dream.
All of the flat buyers I think are very temporaly and after the new low count of their investment, will sale at a loss and with their heads down will leave Bansko and that Chapter of their dream and tought that Pirin/Bansko is ''the new Alps''.
Get real please.
At least you( G) are working with numbers and figures.
I know you want more.


And I am not cinical Gareth
When I read your post above I immediately thought: What a lovely advert which deserves position in the company investor.
Have a look, I think 'U' always needs good and clever accountants.

More urgent for B is:
- to lower the lift pass to a more normal 35lv per day down from the crazy 55leva .
-To delete Akademika lift and ski runs from the map and recalculate the true mileage so people don't feel taken for a BG ride.
-To wait good few years before things settle (ratios improve,image improves from the EU alcoholics hot spot destination to a normal law abiding place) .
- to try to pull Russians with tricking them to buy into getting EU visa with purchase of a flat in BG resorts which will gather dust for years to come but will give the Bratushka ticket to the promised land.
- to try to plant a hell of a lot of trees in Bansko town and wait a lot of years until they develop into lush forests so that way they will be natural curtains and cover up the uglyness in Town.

Mr M - I wasn't aware of the avalenche 8 times which could have damaged the base station so that makes a lot more sense now.

I was purely thinking of it from a position if I had a business plan those would be the logical steps to enhance the business & leverage the FIS involvement. Sure the peak to peak was a bit tongue in cheek but it avoids harm to the trees.



Mr M - for the last two seasons I have been going I have noticed that to the West of Bansko past Pirin Golf complex there is a huge area of trees being cut down which (we stopped on the road for a look with Cameras etc) looked wide enough to be the width of a piste. What is going on there? Also further up the Pirin Golf road there is also much things going on at the treeline.
What is happening in those areas and why? Is it developers doing things without any planning permissions OR just routine cutting of trees in a National park?

As for ski lift price - personally I do not think it is a high price you are suggestng a 36% reduction in cost but would that reduction increase the number of visitors by a similar number? If not and you have to assume the amount they use on piste for food & drink then its not worth while.
I'd suggest offering tour operators lower lift prices so a package deal is cheaper "All Inclusive ski holiday" that way you would maybe get more interest and people staying in the local area instead of driving in then leaving.


As for me 2 places. Well I own them without Mortgage - I have always wanted a villa/holiday home so this way gave us the option as a family to have many more overseas holidays than otherwise. We bought 2 one never to rent out to keep just for us and any friends who want to stay while we are not visiting and the other it was cheaper to buy two 1 beds than a 2 bed. We tend to rent the other out but also use it as well. Rental returns have been strong but then when the financial markets fell rental fell too - however they are now creeping back up.

Intentions to sell? Well we have owned them for 7 years now and have no intentions on selling no desire. Maybe in another 10-20 years maybe or if by then the price isnt good just keep it which means dead cheap holidays fr our family. Also by the time I retire I do like the idea of 6-8 week long summer holidays and also for the winter a number of skiing holidays so makes sense to keep them.

A ski resort with only 70ish km of runs
-Not enough lift facilities to take the skiers up
-With laughable infrastructure
-Extreme Poverty just 5 minutes away(trust me it is there to see and touch)
-in a country with the lowest pay in Europe
-with a massive brain drain problem
- a ski resort with Very long airport transfer
-With relatively low average terrain (900m to 2500m)
-with no interconnected areas
Is classed as bottom of the pile as far as the proper international ski resort goes.
And that's why the lift pass should reflect the state and conditions or no more than 35 leva or 16-17euros per day.
It is not personnal.
All of the 'big' 3 in BG are the same story.
So to charge 55lv which is 23 euros per day for the limited service is just plain stupid and a total rip-off.
With that sort of price, the punters are not going to repeat them.
So BG resorts are always going to stay as a beginner's patch to start to learn and quickly move on and forget about the place.
You can place as many FIS races and still the place is with the same disadvantages.
Don't forget that there are hundreds of ski resorts in the Alps which do not want to have any FIS exposure because this brings one big fat ZERO to the locals.
It is another matter for the big guns where the ball game is completely different one.

Well one advantage will be still present in BG I guess -this is :cheapo booze.

I predict in 10 years BG resorts to be still the destination for the boozers.
Which is a shame but inevitable.
I don't want BG to be associated with this sort of habit but I don't think there is a will for an uplift and change of image.
Personally, Do I want to retire to a boozing place ?
Don't think so!
Gareth,
So if you have bought 7 years ago. My guess is that you have splashed at the peak prices which translates to : Have them forever! Gardez toujours!

I will give you one example: Like you in the early 2000s I wanted villa complex with sea views, with private pools each.
OK so I buit it, finished it and what?
When I went to show it to friends and family for a long Hols then I realised that it was important only until I finished them.
The buzz has gone.
I got bored disallusioned fell restricted and made the right decision -to get rid of all of it and quick and crucially in time and before the crash.
I did not want to keep even one of them for 'rainy days'.

Maybe I am a little bit better at accountancy. after all.
So sold them all and since then I know Very well what to commit to and not to get a patch somewhere where I will feel sorry straight after that.
Unless it is a pukka place with good infrastructure easy access,proper locals,not criminal government and crooks left right and center,
I don't want even to think about it.
Every time to see extreme poverty Just behind the hill or around the corner.No thanks.
If I wanted that I would have bought in plenty of places around the globe where prices are as cheap as chips some of them better than BG on balance. Mogadishu spring to mind Joking of course.
I could never ever imagine myself retiring in Bansko
- listening to the local accent,
battling with hell of ridiculous things.

Or maybe I have to be more optimistic:
If I look at it from other angle I could find some sence perhaps.
As Bulgaria shrink its population and is draining its brain force, in 10 years it will be difficult to find somebody to talk in there.
So, then people like you and others like you with flats around reaching their constructional life potential and in need to be renovated In a major way, I have to be positive- the more people like you deciding to stay and fill the gap/vacuum ,the better after all.
In the early 2000 everybody thought that with the massive construction actually things will go the right way.
Now 12 years after I am not sure at all.
Good luck anyway and don't loose the plot.
This is only my view so don't take offence.

Gareth
The avalanche was once not every season. As fas as I remember 2005 or 2006.enough to sprinkle fear around.
To open Akademika lift and get safety permit for the runs there it will need a lot of extra facilities for tackling the avalanches.
Extra rope system with guns for breaking the avalanches,helicopters to open the ares after snow fall,constant man power which is not in the caliber of Bansko.
In BG everything is done simply: plant a concrete erect pilons connect and Pray.
One other major thing which BG resorts have to address is :
Commit to start of season and end of season and stick with it doesn't matter the snow conditions.
Don't do the 'criminal' think of shrinking the season without notice just to do some savings.
There is no resort in the Alps which will not do the upmost attention and work to make sure ski pistes have snow on them and keep everything open until the last day.
For numerous end of seasons now(6-7 years)
Bansko closes without notice and earlier than listed at the start of season.
Only Borovets keep on staying open beyond the end day of season.

Mr M.

I have personally skied in Bansko over the last week of the season during the last 7 years. I booked my flights to time to this every single year I was there it closed on the day that was published - well one year they had a big dump so extended it. This year also friends went for that last week published for the season they skied every day.

So on this you must be mistaken or remembering the bad years which is generally the case with all things in life.

Peak of the market happened 2-3 years after I had bought

Retire to Bansko? Why on earth would I do that? Long holidays sure but I love living in the UK thanks and have no intention on living anywhere but here.

You could buy vast properties in Mongolia but I have no desire ditto Mogadishu. But I take your point lots of cheaper places to buy - but not skiing places which are also usable in the summer ie 32-36 degrees forecasted for two weeks this month in Bansko very nice temps.

We have been on vacations to Bansko with friends a number of times of which they all enjoyed it - which they would say but then have all stayed there independently in our properties for further vacations so I'll take that they did enjoy it.

One thing you have to remember the price I spent was around the cost of a BMW 5 series touring (which is what I buy every few years and lose 50% in three years) so its hardly big bucks.

The key question is would I do it again? Well I'm a multiple uk property owner landlord firstly and have been for nearly two decades.
If the economic crash of 2008 hadn't happened for sure if I knew it would happen I would not have spent the money and bought a three year old Porche 911 Turbo.

To sell now I guess is very hard low demand like everywhere beauty is we don't need to sell and we actually use it and enjoy it with every visit. I can honestly see us still having these for 10+ years maybe much longer

When we have skied in Alps v Bansko we have spent easily £2k more do given we have had 5-6 skiing holidays to Bansko we have saved on the winter season £12k plus add in the summer vacation is notably cheaper too maybe £1k+.

aw no.... was just getting interesting, Mikeys ramblings were bordering on desperate.... so he took the money and ran, before the crash with no thought for his buyers ?? Accountant would be right... 'can't bear to listen to local Bansko accent' ? do i detect snobery ? hahahaha...
Garath, leave him to his perfect Alps, where the infrastructure is perfect, the snow always deep, and the people always friendly.... he has money now and couldn't possibly be seen slumming it, with the latest mobile, and a BMW, Merc or an Audi, likely all three, how very Bulgarian..

Steve it is always very good fun to read views of somebody who made B his home.
I would not touch B propertywise even if it is rock bottom(still long way to go downhill)
One reason is the accent, corruption is another, bad feel all round,hastle , crowded and overpriced pistes, poverty next to you and on and on.
You know better the situation by now.
I can understand your situation Steve, Hard but you are stuck there now and coming out with less is v.dissapointing.
You are gonna have to stay years or lifetime.
I am sorry.
I sence some anger coming from you as regards the chosen spot to live
3 cars? Don't be ridiculous
I only need one.
Local accent you say.Yes if you are Bulgarian you will perfectly know what I mean.imposible to undertand, and more and more.

Me desperate? Of what?
Decided that BG is a BAD choice (complexly -property,holiday destination prices and more or less all) and very easily sold to punters like you gready for unfulfilled fantasies in late life and left it at this.So desperate- Don't think so.
I still admire you bravery though to make B you home.
Keep the hard work and loof forward!
I am on this forum sometimes Just having fun ocasionally reading some very funny posts and techniques by regulars trying desperately to lure more souls and get some more comms. you know what I mean.sure you do.
.
All clear nothing to loose nothing to look constantly with desperation of a further fall.if anything you sound more desperate and constantly posting with the hope you grab some Business and survive the season on the back of your contrymen.
Gareth
I am saving by going to Alps not by going to BG.
And I go not once but 8-9times a season so please save your savings to yourself!
If you like BG -fine, if you like cheappo booze -fine, if you like to queue-fine, if the 'night' attractions are your patch -fine.
Or if you could ONLY afford BG brick prices -fine.
All that still doen not make Bansko 'Value' for money.