Bulgaria Ski discussion board
BG SKI INFO.Have a good summer!
Author:
posts : 13 (Beginner)Date : 07-25-08 20:43BG SKI INFO.Have a good summer!
With all the credit crunch doom and gloom at the moment, with rising food and fuel bills and falling property values, it is easy to lose sight of the good things in life.
Wandering around Bulgarian market taking in the sights, scents and sounds, this is the stuff of holidays, the laidback summer days we dream of for the rest of the year and thinking of the winter ones filled with the magic stuff hopefully in the same place.
If you are still in the dreaming stages when it comes to ...
Wandering around Bulgarian market taking in the sights, scents and sounds, this is the stuff of holidays, the laidback summer days we dream of for the rest of the year and thinking of the winter ones filled with the magic stuff hopefully in the same place.
If you are still in the dreaming stages when it comes to ...
With all the credit crunch doom and gloom at the moment, with rising food and fuel bills and falling property values, it is easy to lose sight of the good things in life.
Wandering around Bulgarian market taking in the sights, scents and sounds, this is the stuff of holidays, the laidback summer days we dream of for the rest of the year and thinking of the winter ones filled with the magic stuff hopefully in the same place.
If you are still in the dreaming stages when it comes to Bulgarian properties, the stuff below is for you to absorb and take into account.
The current economic situation may make it feel like the dream is being taken away from you.
But don’t give up hope!
The UK’s boom and burst market is unlike most of the world. It is UK obsession with home ownership and investment. In a way it is similar to Bulgarian way of thinking because BG is with the highest ownership in Europe –well into into 90%.
The huge price hikes of recent years couldn’t go unabated-would we have wanted them to?
The house you live now is almost definitely worth more that it was 10 years ago and it is still and will be even if the prices fall further over the next 6-12 months.
The gap between UK and Bulgarian property prices remains huge, meaning BG property still represents a value for money even with the poor exchange rate with euro and the slowing down of the projects for infrastructure and the current slapping on the hand from EU proper.
The Bulgarian property is maybe not so stable and the sight are showing of a downturn and in some areas fall, but the demand is not dead, so cheer up!
And remember that while your Bulgarian property may well turn out to be a some type of investment maybe not so great , remember that most people will continue to buy in there, more or less because in real terms the real value is this, that it enriches their life in ways that have nothing to do with money.
Recently I have noticed that some estate agents have more or less listings boasting about a ‘whole village’ a’ whole hotel,’ a ‘whole complex’ and this gets me into thinking that surely something is changing in BG.
The times for making quick money in BG from property has gone with few exceptions.
That’s why, do your home work before you plunge into Bulgaria, because it is very easy to get carried away.
Another thing is- Be careful as who you ask for advise.
Only small piece of knowledge is a dangerous thing.
At the age when all of us have instant access to vast area of info on every topic and with a few clicks on the net we can go anywhere and ‘check’ everything how do we sort out the good from the bad? Finding reliable answer can be tricky.
Reading this forum use to be reasonable although no place can guarantee 100% the accuracy. Circumstances and reasons are all different .
Forums are relatively new way of fact finding and sharing advice and info.
It pays to check the topics before you go regularly.
Watching this and the other forum-The beach one, I have been amazed by the gullibility of some .Why should you trust the answer to a question when you see only one side of a particular story especially when you don’t have a clue who is giving you the answer.
‘Pen-pushers turned builders and investors’ are the worst: so long as their project or property hasn’t cracked up(yet) ,they will lure you and cheerfully tell you only what they want you to hear and know will carefully select info with no damaging effects.
This is what this forum is becoming: La-la Land and jumping on everybody with some type of negative info on Bulgaria.
I little knowledge about the place can make people to think they are more experts that they really are. This is the case on here with most of the regulars I am afraid.
Others just don’t know anybody for advice but everything is so easy-just when you are there pop into your local and ask somebody.
UNSCRUPULOUS TRADERS also seem to be using the two forums in question to market their services covertly touting for business and all this lowers down the value of the site as a whole.
You can of course run into similar situations when you meet other forumers or expats face to face but at least, then you have a better change of sorting out the rubbish from the rest.
Local gatherings can be a great way to get the names of a local tradesmen.
If however all you do is to pick their brains without ever engaging their services, you may find that you don’t get the warmest welcome when you next meet with them especially if you have already employed somebody else or taken other offers.
I don’t know why but I have decided to sum up in short all of the available info about the Bulgarian present and past ski resorts maybe that way it will help in some ways.
So here are some gatherings from recent BG papers, magazines and more for you to take into consideration before you make your holiday trip into Bulgaria or a property one of course:
Is it possible Bulgaria to be The Austria and The Switzerland of the Balkans?
If you are taking into account only the future plans for developing and building new ski areas, resorts and complexes around them, it will be true and the answer will be positive.
If we think about the level above the sea which they are thinking of growing and with the global warming lurking and the infrastructure which has to be built to simply cope with them , we have to think before we can definitely give an answer and we have to place some doubt into all of this.
In the last few years it has become a fashion almost every municipality which has a touch with a mountain big or small in some ways to launch plans for developing of ski tourism.
Some of these plans are modest, some are on a grand scale. The common with all of them is that they all have crashed with the resistance of the nature lovers and saviours and BG ‘green peace’ likes.
The other which is common for all of them is that their start is always delayed into the future. Sometimes it is brought back to the drawing table for complete re-doing some times for corrections some times for the financial sound of it.
To build ski resort where there is only a rusty lift from decades ago is a serious business.
And already there is the bitter taste of the overbuilding of Bansko where the property deals are coming scarce and the illusions of some profit have disappeared fast.
Most of the county halls in the municipalities in question at the foot of mountains are looking forward to the new projects like Jesus which can salvage the backward local economies .
The hopes of the locals are that the prices of land will shoot up and they will benefit greatly from this trend although the rises have reached nearly tops or are already at the highest they can be..
Is it viable thought to believe that all of these plans will surface and will see day light?
It is the question of mathematics, accountancy and future prospects beyond the couple of years and into the future.
The question asked more often nowadays is this:
-Isn’t it better to preserve the nature and leave it as it is without the human touch which seems can only destroy it in longer term.?
Isn’t it better to bet on a eco tourism, on a authentic nature and established architecture from the past rather that the current near mess in places like Bansko?
THERE IS A BIG GAP at present between these two lines of general thought in Bulgarian society . .
Little by little though the thinking of the investors is changing. The projects are getting kinder to the environment or at least on paper .The aggressive approach from the near past and the overbuilding at the end, won’t bring dividends for the investors so something has to change.
What is planned to be build in the Bulgarian mountains?
Here you can find the answer.
Do your sums before making decision!
Most of the ambitious projects about this are still only on paper no more.
Until few years back the vision of all of the Bulgarian investors ,big and small was the Beach only and the appetizing few available plots still at a reasonable prices to build high and cheap to sell quickly and go.
Until after the sudden spending of nearly 40 million euros in transforming just one plain regular BG box-standard resort into some alternative for the traditional European ski tourist the vision has not change.I mean Bansko.
We can’t disagree that transforming Bansko in the period of 2001-2002 in practice put the start of the beginning of the BG mountain ‘Boom’.
The investments in there were the first serious movements and injections that followed into the fallen asleep Bulgarian ski tourism. What happens after that is that at the end of the day, these initial investments were wise ones and very profitable.
In the years to follow this was the route everybody was following.
All of the investors kept is in the same direction of straightening the collapsed ski business.
First projects were like makeover for the old and morally pensioned resorts like Pamporovo and Borovets.
After that the word surfaced was about serious projects in Dobrinishte, near Bansko and Panichishte near Samokov / Borovets and in other mountains.
On the surface came and projects with the word SUPER in front of them. Some with ‘Hyper’ attached to them and so one.
Little by little the investments of 40 million euros in Bansko started to look like a children’s play.
The buzz now was into 3 digit millions like the Super Borovets which is planning to suck 500 million euros or even the 100 millions which Berkovitsa –in the northwest of Bulgaria is planning to spend for building first class KOM Ski Resort just at the border with Serbia.
Only for few years and now the talk of big investments is left right and centre.
Municipalities like Razlog,Teteven,Troyan,Chepelare,Gabrovo,Govedarci,Separeva bania,Blagoevgrad,Dobrinishte Smolian and even smaller village ones like Mala Tsurkva ,Stoikite, Gela have sprung new projects and ideas like mushrooms in the corridors of the mayor’s offices up and down the country.
And now the so far empty pages, of the Bulgarian Winterland have been filled with all sorts of projects for turning the country into a ‘Winter paradise’ in eastern Europe.
In the aftermath of all this, the investors have become sober and realised little by little that doing a resort of this scale is not children’s game.
It is not enough to have only few weeks of snow on the ground around Xmas and stick a lift or two and cut few acres of forest to make way for ski runs.
The noise around these gigantic projects has almost gone now.
In some of them where the brave have already started, but with the first dig the grass now is returning after the initiation and the dates for completion have flown into the horizon and disappeared into the mountain fog of the future.
BECAUSE of the positioning of Bulgaria this sort of investments have to be absolutely gigantic with first building infrastructure and then only after many years, hoping for any returns.
If in investing in a sea side hotel, the recouping is around 5 years, in the building of ski lifts and structures with runs and supporting features that period is much much longer .
From the 60’s and up until mid 80’s when the current Bulgarian ski resorts were built, all of the investments and the after care were done by the government.
In the 90’s with the beginning of the massive privatisation, the fights were mainly for dominance and pushing away the competitors.
Only now the situation have brought in to the table the questions of bringing a lot of various and quality investors.
This brought a lot of difficulty as of who gets what % of the cake and enters with what amount.Spome project can’t get off the ground only for that single reason.
The developing of consortiums is the way forward and this has been unified across the board these days in Bulgaria.
In the forming of these consortiums as a rule has to enter and the local municipality which offers the land plus few big investors and maybe with some help from the government.
One problem has been highlighted recently –making the actual plans .
As this is the case of most of them, the push from the locals and the investors is not enough and that’s why projects like Super Borovets are back to the drawing boards .
One is certain in the case of Super Borovets that it will eventually start but with delaying the final completion dates.
At the end of the day even when only the rumours are in the air, from the moment of publishing the wishes for a new ski resort in a particular place, the benefits are all round and obvious.
The locals can see the prices going up, the authorities can hope for more from the government the investors can see that not all is lost and the present tourists can hope that one day then can say to the off springs that in the pass they have been in there and now it is something massive and worth mentioning.
And the way is only this and we all agree more or less:
There is no alternative present on the table for reviving the local economies.
Green tourism won’t feed the locals right now and the investors are not interested in it because the returns are less and somehow not clear.
This can tell you that the developing of the ski tourism won’t stop. Maybe it will be delayed a little but that’s all .
Lets hope that in the process they all wont go over the limit where it is destroying the nature and actually everything with it.
And lets hope we will learn from the recent mistakes like the overbuilding of the Black Sea Coast and Bansko in the mountain where the prices have started to have an effect tourists have started to come back disappointed and some of them not going back there.
VITOSHA:
The boom of the planning of new ski resorts has not bypassed Vitosha mountain which overlooks the capital Sofia.
The plans are for serious modernising in the areas of Aleko,Cherni Vruh Peak , Goli Vruh Peak and Vithosha lale.
Plans are for enlarging the area and linking it al together.
Re-modelling of the approaches to that ski area –the gondola from Simeonovo to Aleko the lift from Dragalevci to be replaced with Gondola and a new one from Kniajevo on the west directly linked to the highest point: Mount Vherni Vruh.
The general idea is Vitosha to become place for very easy access from 3 different points in the Capital.without building hotels high within the national park-all on the outskirts of this beautiful mountain which is like the chest of Sofia providing the O2 to the millions habitants .
Plans are for modernising the present parkings around these 3 places and regular buss lines with the centre.
In the project the forecast is for spending around 20-30 million euros but the reality is for 70ish million.
SUPER BOROVETS PROJECT:
This Project for 500 million euros is the most ambitious in Bulgaria.
First the talk started in 2005 when the municipality of Samokov came out with the idea of a massive resort.
The investors of the formed then Rila Camokov company have declared their intentions with preliminary plans.
Until 2012 the plans are for using 500 millions with all sorts of hotels 19 new ski runs adding 40 km to the current length with small village type satellites plus new infrastructure new sport centres .
marking the project in 3 places/areas according the standard of services
Low Borovets just outside Samokov on 1000m above sea level,
mid Borovets 1300
and high Boro 1400-1600m.
8th October the Premier went there and dug out the first hole for the future foundation of this project with all of the fanfare and advertisement possible. Promises were of a non-stop work and even motorway passing by Samokov .
At the end of the day 10 months later, the building is almost zero because from one of the investors, there were doubts about the current plans and they have gone back to the drawing boards for corrections.
It is unclear as of when the start will restart and with how long all of this will be protracted into the future and surely well beyond 2012.
The RILA LAKES/PANICHISHTE PROJECT –LIKE IN THE ALPS? NOT YET.
The push from the main investors in this project was the explanation that for example in the Austrian Alps there are 20000 km of ski runs,5700 ski lifts and more than 800 resorts similar is in Italy and Switzerland.
In the BG mountains there are 200km ski runs and give and take 50 lifts.
This was the defence of the investors in April when they try to enrol publicly their idea of a Panichishte-Lakes-Kabul Peak or known as Super Panichishte or the ski resort in the 7 lakes.
The saga of the plans begins 2004but from 2006 it became in the focus of the eco organisations which straight away started series of actions against it.
Only before Easter the mayor of Separeva bania and the investors decided to promise that on the north west slopes of the biggest mountain in BG (above the 2000m) and in the west corner of it which is with the best track record of snow cover in BG with the beginning of this project is that happens thee will be golden rivers and a win-win situation for everybody in this region. The tourism they said has to be the only thing which can transform this part of the world.
The project is for a fully regulated resort definitely different from the rest so far mentioning Bansko as a bad example. The idea is this resort to be able when build in the top 10 in Europe-and a solid competitor for the Alps.
The consultancy firm chosen is a Canadian ‘Ecosign Mountain resort Planners Ltd.’
‘Ecosign’ has around 200 winter resorts in which has been a designer and developer.
Organiser in the Calgary Olympics as well as Salt Lake City ones and it is in the fondation of the winning resort for hosting Future Olympics like the next one in Vancouver and the one after that-- Sochi 2014.
That same company has come up with solution after 18 months work that will label Super Panichishte as a 5 star resort.
3 areas for accommodation are designed for this vision.
The areas are around the village of Panichishte just at the borders with the national Park Rila.
The hotels are to be build low and only with lifts taking the tourists to the ski areas.
No vehicles will be allowed up the mountain.
The heating in the resort is planned be with bio fuel, there will be some persentages from the sale of tickets and lift passes that will go into funding primarily the eco project in the same area only.
100 km of ski runs are planned. The snow cover is probably the most reliable in the whole of Bulgaria, everything so far is sound.
Apart of the doubts about the investors themselves which is still not clear who they are and also the rising questions: where are they based ? and more importantly what is happening with the promise that this project will be very different and will be very transparent.
Some information at the moment just does not sound promising.
So because of that ‘groups against’ Panochishte were formed quickly and now are constantly demanding explanations and threatening with real actions.
For example this weekend along it’s the next meeting of the group with the protecting Logo: ‘’ Nature to be left in BG’’
There is war on all fronts at the moment.
Locals think that this is their saviour, the groups against are pointing out to the negatives from such a project and irreversible damages which can happen.
The end is not visible and the question: Is Rila going to be equal with the Alps? -is still to be found ?
The forecast is: jugging by the speed of decisions in the corridors of power that the answer of the question: what is going to be build in Rila? won’t be definitely given for the foreseeable future.
RODOPI MOUNTAIN/PERELIK Project
In the Rodopi Mountains there are ready for massive expansion as well .
Mega project Perelik is supposed to change the lives of every local .
The plans are for a start of the building in the autumn.
At the moment there are the factual checks from Nature2000 which have stopped the actual start.
The plans are for 217 km of ski runs-figure which if realised will become the leader all of the other ski places in Bulgaria even added all together.
At present:
Bansko is with 43 km,
Borovets is with 38,
Pamporovo will have for the hew season almost for sure 42km
and Vitosha hovers around with 40ish.
The whole of the Perelik project will cost 500million euros.
The construction will be 10 years from start to finish.
There are some yanks investing into this so lets see what is going to be the final result.
The idea is for capacity of 35 thousand skiers, spreading around the villages Stoikite,Gela Mugla,Stikul,Solishta, Smolian etc.
All this with runs from 1500 to only 2130m above the sea level which is a bit warning sign judging the reliability of the snow at this level.
The project is presented by a French consultancy firm which is specialising in developing the infrastructure of the Sochi Olympics
Forecast is for strong 21000 beds when completed on top of the present 20000ish .
PAMPOROVO:
The first 6 seater chair lift will start this winter season from Stoikite. Nearly 3km direct from the village to Snejanka peak with capacity of 2400 pers/hour and with speed of 6m/sec
This will be the fastest chair in Bulgaria. FACT.
The company involved is the French leader Pomagalski.
The contents of the lift have arrived in the area with 46 lorries.
5 million euros is the cost of this lift. There will be and 2 new runs expending the total by 7km from the Peak to Stoikite.
With this Pamporovo will total 42km or ski runs and tracks for cross country. At present the beds are around 15000.
CHEPELARE:
At the beginning of July started the enlargement of Chepelare Ski Centre as well.
The project for the moment is mainly to change the chair with a quad one for abour 5 million euros, because the present one is 25 years old.
The ski runs in Chepelare are 22km plus, The ones for Biathlon and X country another 20ish.The beds around the town are 2000.
PIRIN
3 new areas in Pirin Mountain are panned in the next 5-6 years.
The expectations are these resorts to be serious competitors to the present Bansko.
DOBRINISHTE
Only 6km from Bansko the plans are for developing a ski resort with 23 km of ski runs with gondola of 6km more or less forecasted to reach the hut Gotse Delchev.from there only chair lifts will be build .the preliminary plans are present and last autumn for the very first time in BG history there are calls for forming comity with the all interested parties from local groups from all of the surrounding villages to the experts etc.
According the period of developing the situation is this.
-Around 2 years planning and procedures and the same period for building it.
-Nearly half of the ski terrains will be on the municipality’s land the rest government one.
-Around 40 million euros will be needed for all this.
KULINOTO project.
Again near Bansko is the other one planned for the future.
This time to avoid the battles and delays with the eco organisations, the decision was made to start this project with full ecological investigation first.
The surrounding Peaks have been scanned and measured from all sides and it will be presented full report of the damages in front of the commission for decision.Lets hope that this is the way forward and if approved looks like this one will be the kinder of them all.
Plans in Kulinoto are for 58km of ski runs lifts with length 19km golf course 18holes and capacity 6500skiers per day.
The third centre planned is KARTALA which is above Blagoevgrad.
Around 30 km into Rila Mountain where the old ski run of 2km is. There will be enlargement up to 45km and lifts totalling 15km.
The investment planned is for around 15milion euros.
Ski runs from 1440m and the top station is planned to reach 2200m.Bed capacity for 1500 and lift capacity of 1400 pers/hour.
The interesting thing about this project is that the investors are building it with own money and credit.
6 seat chair are already present the bottom station is nearly ready the ski run is ready with length of 3,5 km
The problems though have arrived and there, with eco warriors wanting explanation and information about the documents and on top of everything some parts of the land has become unclear of who owns it and what rights are present to build on it.So for the moment it is at a station and waiting signal.
ISKROVETE
This is group of satellite places around Borovets and the idea of this project is for series of little ski areas starting from Beli Iskar,Mala Tsurkva, Madjare and on top Govedarci plus the areas around Gulietchica and Maliovitsa. This area has 2 small ski places- Maliovitsa with 2-3 drags and Govedarci with a run and 2 drags just above the village.
This project so far is only an idea and it is not very clear what and who is going to invest in it.
May be a local businessman is going to start it .It is not clear yet though.
Rumours are constant of ideas for building villages on the bottom of the future runs all in a region which is one of the most beautiful part of Rila and with very easy access from Samokov.
It is to be seen how the ski runs planned are going to be linked and how is it going to be allowed development into the Rila National Park.
When it comes to ideas for building ski resorts there are not only the obvious choices for Bulgaria the high mountains Rila Pirin and Rodopi.
After Berkovitsa in the west now for the share of the ski cake has enrolled as a candidate for ski resort and UZANA .
This area wants to become a member of the club of BG winter places.
UZANA
is the geographical centre of Bulgaria.22 km from Gabrovo. The place looks like a giant mountainous gently sloping field at 1300m above the seas level with the top peak there at 1352m.
At the moment UZANA has 8 little runs with rusty drags totalling 8km with the longest run 1km. According to the locals, the winter is definitely there from Xmas until March although the height of 1300m is not something to shout about.
The big problem there is that the whole of the area falls into protected region.
This is The National Park ‘Bulgarka’ and in the current climate, there are slim chances somebody will view this area as a ski potential.
Maybe only as a alternative to the ski –who knows?
Of course there are and other places which want to become Members in the Premier League of BG ski resorts .
As a whole some will say: This for me is the best place -Lets go there now, some will want to see results first, some tourists will only laugh at the ideas some of the BG resorts to become ‘The Alps of the East’.
Whatever it is, this little information is here to help you make a decision.
Again
Lets hope that in the process of developing this country, things wont go over the limit, where it is destroying the nature and actually everything with it.
And lets hope we will all learn from the recent mistakes like the overbuilding of the Black Sea Coast and Bansko where as a direct result the prices have started to have a downward effect , tourists have started to come back disappointed and some of them even are stating they are not going back there again.
CHEERS
PS going on my big one first with quick visit for the concert of Lenny Kravitz in Sofia and then snow skiing and trekking and more, so have a good summer Chaps and let’s hope the winter will be snowy wherever you decide to go.
Wandering around Bulgarian market taking in the sights, scents and sounds, this is the stuff of holidays, the laidback summer days we dream of for the rest of the year and thinking of the winter ones filled with the magic stuff hopefully in the same place.
If you are still in the dreaming stages when it comes to Bulgarian properties, the stuff below is for you to absorb and take into account.
The current economic situation may make it feel like the dream is being taken away from you.
But don’t give up hope!
The UK’s boom and burst market is unlike most of the world. It is UK obsession with home ownership and investment. In a way it is similar to Bulgarian way of thinking because BG is with the highest ownership in Europe –well into into 90%.
The huge price hikes of recent years couldn’t go unabated-would we have wanted them to?
The house you live now is almost definitely worth more that it was 10 years ago and it is still and will be even if the prices fall further over the next 6-12 months.
The gap between UK and Bulgarian property prices remains huge, meaning BG property still represents a value for money even with the poor exchange rate with euro and the slowing down of the projects for infrastructure and the current slapping on the hand from EU proper.
The Bulgarian property is maybe not so stable and the sight are showing of a downturn and in some areas fall, but the demand is not dead, so cheer up!
And remember that while your Bulgarian property may well turn out to be a some type of investment maybe not so great , remember that most people will continue to buy in there, more or less because in real terms the real value is this, that it enriches their life in ways that have nothing to do with money.
Recently I have noticed that some estate agents have more or less listings boasting about a ‘whole village’ a’ whole hotel,’ a ‘whole complex’ and this gets me into thinking that surely something is changing in BG.
The times for making quick money in BG from property has gone with few exceptions.
That’s why, do your home work before you plunge into Bulgaria, because it is very easy to get carried away.
Another thing is- Be careful as who you ask for advise.
Only small piece of knowledge is a dangerous thing.
At the age when all of us have instant access to vast area of info on every topic and with a few clicks on the net we can go anywhere and ‘check’ everything how do we sort out the good from the bad? Finding reliable answer can be tricky.
Reading this forum use to be reasonable although no place can guarantee 100% the accuracy. Circumstances and reasons are all different .
Forums are relatively new way of fact finding and sharing advice and info.
It pays to check the topics before you go regularly.
Watching this and the other forum-The beach one, I have been amazed by the gullibility of some .Why should you trust the answer to a question when you see only one side of a particular story especially when you don’t have a clue who is giving you the answer.
‘Pen-pushers turned builders and investors’ are the worst: so long as their project or property hasn’t cracked up(yet) ,they will lure you and cheerfully tell you only what they want you to hear and know will carefully select info with no damaging effects.
This is what this forum is becoming: La-la Land and jumping on everybody with some type of negative info on Bulgaria.
I little knowledge about the place can make people to think they are more experts that they really are. This is the case on here with most of the regulars I am afraid.
Others just don’t know anybody for advice but everything is so easy-just when you are there pop into your local and ask somebody.
UNSCRUPULOUS TRADERS also seem to be using the two forums in question to market their services covertly touting for business and all this lowers down the value of the site as a whole.
You can of course run into similar situations when you meet other forumers or expats face to face but at least, then you have a better change of sorting out the rubbish from the rest.
Local gatherings can be a great way to get the names of a local tradesmen.
If however all you do is to pick their brains without ever engaging their services, you may find that you don’t get the warmest welcome when you next meet with them especially if you have already employed somebody else or taken other offers.
I don’t know why but I have decided to sum up in short all of the available info about the Bulgarian present and past ski resorts maybe that way it will help in some ways.
So here are some gatherings from recent BG papers, magazines and more for you to take into consideration before you make your holiday trip into Bulgaria or a property one of course:
Is it possible Bulgaria to be The Austria and The Switzerland of the Balkans?
If you are taking into account only the future plans for developing and building new ski areas, resorts and complexes around them, it will be true and the answer will be positive.
If we think about the level above the sea which they are thinking of growing and with the global warming lurking and the infrastructure which has to be built to simply cope with them , we have to think before we can definitely give an answer and we have to place some doubt into all of this.
In the last few years it has become a fashion almost every municipality which has a touch with a mountain big or small in some ways to launch plans for developing of ski tourism.
Some of these plans are modest, some are on a grand scale. The common with all of them is that they all have crashed with the resistance of the nature lovers and saviours and BG ‘green peace’ likes.
The other which is common for all of them is that their start is always delayed into the future. Sometimes it is brought back to the drawing table for complete re-doing some times for corrections some times for the financial sound of it.
To build ski resort where there is only a rusty lift from decades ago is a serious business.
And already there is the bitter taste of the overbuilding of Bansko where the property deals are coming scarce and the illusions of some profit have disappeared fast.
Most of the county halls in the municipalities in question at the foot of mountains are looking forward to the new projects like Jesus which can salvage the backward local economies .
The hopes of the locals are that the prices of land will shoot up and they will benefit greatly from this trend although the rises have reached nearly tops or are already at the highest they can be..
Is it viable thought to believe that all of these plans will surface and will see day light?
It is the question of mathematics, accountancy and future prospects beyond the couple of years and into the future.
The question asked more often nowadays is this:
-Isn’t it better to preserve the nature and leave it as it is without the human touch which seems can only destroy it in longer term.?
Isn’t it better to bet on a eco tourism, on a authentic nature and established architecture from the past rather that the current near mess in places like Bansko?
THERE IS A BIG GAP at present between these two lines of general thought in Bulgarian society . .
Little by little though the thinking of the investors is changing. The projects are getting kinder to the environment or at least on paper .The aggressive approach from the near past and the overbuilding at the end, won’t bring dividends for the investors so something has to change.
What is planned to be build in the Bulgarian mountains?
Here you can find the answer.
Do your sums before making decision!
Most of the ambitious projects about this are still only on paper no more.
Until few years back the vision of all of the Bulgarian investors ,big and small was the Beach only and the appetizing few available plots still at a reasonable prices to build high and cheap to sell quickly and go.
Until after the sudden spending of nearly 40 million euros in transforming just one plain regular BG box-standard resort into some alternative for the traditional European ski tourist the vision has not change.I mean Bansko.
We can’t disagree that transforming Bansko in the period of 2001-2002 in practice put the start of the beginning of the BG mountain ‘Boom’.
The investments in there were the first serious movements and injections that followed into the fallen asleep Bulgarian ski tourism. What happens after that is that at the end of the day, these initial investments were wise ones and very profitable.
In the years to follow this was the route everybody was following.
All of the investors kept is in the same direction of straightening the collapsed ski business.
First projects were like makeover for the old and morally pensioned resorts like Pamporovo and Borovets.
After that the word surfaced was about serious projects in Dobrinishte, near Bansko and Panichishte near Samokov / Borovets and in other mountains.
On the surface came and projects with the word SUPER in front of them. Some with ‘Hyper’ attached to them and so one.
Little by little the investments of 40 million euros in Bansko started to look like a children’s play.
The buzz now was into 3 digit millions like the Super Borovets which is planning to suck 500 million euros or even the 100 millions which Berkovitsa –in the northwest of Bulgaria is planning to spend for building first class KOM Ski Resort just at the border with Serbia.
Only for few years and now the talk of big investments is left right and centre.
Municipalities like Razlog,Teteven,Troyan,Chepelare,Gabrovo,Govedarci,Separeva bania,Blagoevgrad,Dobrinishte Smolian and even smaller village ones like Mala Tsurkva ,Stoikite, Gela have sprung new projects and ideas like mushrooms in the corridors of the mayor’s offices up and down the country.
And now the so far empty pages, of the Bulgarian Winterland have been filled with all sorts of projects for turning the country into a ‘Winter paradise’ in eastern Europe.
In the aftermath of all this, the investors have become sober and realised little by little that doing a resort of this scale is not children’s game.
It is not enough to have only few weeks of snow on the ground around Xmas and stick a lift or two and cut few acres of forest to make way for ski runs.
The noise around these gigantic projects has almost gone now.
In some of them where the brave have already started, but with the first dig the grass now is returning after the initiation and the dates for completion have flown into the horizon and disappeared into the mountain fog of the future.
BECAUSE of the positioning of Bulgaria this sort of investments have to be absolutely gigantic with first building infrastructure and then only after many years, hoping for any returns.
If in investing in a sea side hotel, the recouping is around 5 years, in the building of ski lifts and structures with runs and supporting features that period is much much longer .
From the 60’s and up until mid 80’s when the current Bulgarian ski resorts were built, all of the investments and the after care were done by the government.
In the 90’s with the beginning of the massive privatisation, the fights were mainly for dominance and pushing away the competitors.
Only now the situation have brought in to the table the questions of bringing a lot of various and quality investors.
This brought a lot of difficulty as of who gets what % of the cake and enters with what amount.Spome project can’t get off the ground only for that single reason.
The developing of consortiums is the way forward and this has been unified across the board these days in Bulgaria.
In the forming of these consortiums as a rule has to enter and the local municipality which offers the land plus few big investors and maybe with some help from the government.
One problem has been highlighted recently –making the actual plans .
As this is the case of most of them, the push from the locals and the investors is not enough and that’s why projects like Super Borovets are back to the drawing boards .
One is certain in the case of Super Borovets that it will eventually start but with delaying the final completion dates.
At the end of the day even when only the rumours are in the air, from the moment of publishing the wishes for a new ski resort in a particular place, the benefits are all round and obvious.
The locals can see the prices going up, the authorities can hope for more from the government the investors can see that not all is lost and the present tourists can hope that one day then can say to the off springs that in the pass they have been in there and now it is something massive and worth mentioning.
And the way is only this and we all agree more or less:
There is no alternative present on the table for reviving the local economies.
Green tourism won’t feed the locals right now and the investors are not interested in it because the returns are less and somehow not clear.
This can tell you that the developing of the ski tourism won’t stop. Maybe it will be delayed a little but that’s all .
Lets hope that in the process they all wont go over the limit where it is destroying the nature and actually everything with it.
And lets hope we will learn from the recent mistakes like the overbuilding of the Black Sea Coast and Bansko in the mountain where the prices have started to have an effect tourists have started to come back disappointed and some of them not going back there.
VITOSHA:
The boom of the planning of new ski resorts has not bypassed Vitosha mountain which overlooks the capital Sofia.
The plans are for serious modernising in the areas of Aleko,Cherni Vruh Peak , Goli Vruh Peak and Vithosha lale.
Plans are for enlarging the area and linking it al together.
Re-modelling of the approaches to that ski area –the gondola from Simeonovo to Aleko the lift from Dragalevci to be replaced with Gondola and a new one from Kniajevo on the west directly linked to the highest point: Mount Vherni Vruh.
The general idea is Vitosha to become place for very easy access from 3 different points in the Capital.without building hotels high within the national park-all on the outskirts of this beautiful mountain which is like the chest of Sofia providing the O2 to the millions habitants .
Plans are for modernising the present parkings around these 3 places and regular buss lines with the centre.
In the project the forecast is for spending around 20-30 million euros but the reality is for 70ish million.
SUPER BOROVETS PROJECT:
This Project for 500 million euros is the most ambitious in Bulgaria.
First the talk started in 2005 when the municipality of Samokov came out with the idea of a massive resort.
The investors of the formed then Rila Camokov company have declared their intentions with preliminary plans.
Until 2012 the plans are for using 500 millions with all sorts of hotels 19 new ski runs adding 40 km to the current length with small village type satellites plus new infrastructure new sport centres .
marking the project in 3 places/areas according the standard of services
Low Borovets just outside Samokov on 1000m above sea level,
mid Borovets 1300
and high Boro 1400-1600m.
8th October the Premier went there and dug out the first hole for the future foundation of this project with all of the fanfare and advertisement possible. Promises were of a non-stop work and even motorway passing by Samokov .
At the end of the day 10 months later, the building is almost zero because from one of the investors, there were doubts about the current plans and they have gone back to the drawing boards for corrections.
It is unclear as of when the start will restart and with how long all of this will be protracted into the future and surely well beyond 2012.
The RILA LAKES/PANICHISHTE PROJECT –LIKE IN THE ALPS? NOT YET.
The push from the main investors in this project was the explanation that for example in the Austrian Alps there are 20000 km of ski runs,5700 ski lifts and more than 800 resorts similar is in Italy and Switzerland.
In the BG mountains there are 200km ski runs and give and take 50 lifts.
This was the defence of the investors in April when they try to enrol publicly their idea of a Panichishte-Lakes-Kabul Peak or known as Super Panichishte or the ski resort in the 7 lakes.
The saga of the plans begins 2004but from 2006 it became in the focus of the eco organisations which straight away started series of actions against it.
Only before Easter the mayor of Separeva bania and the investors decided to promise that on the north west slopes of the biggest mountain in BG (above the 2000m) and in the west corner of it which is with the best track record of snow cover in BG with the beginning of this project is that happens thee will be golden rivers and a win-win situation for everybody in this region. The tourism they said has to be the only thing which can transform this part of the world.
The project is for a fully regulated resort definitely different from the rest so far mentioning Bansko as a bad example. The idea is this resort to be able when build in the top 10 in Europe-and a solid competitor for the Alps.
The consultancy firm chosen is a Canadian ‘Ecosign Mountain resort Planners Ltd.’
‘Ecosign’ has around 200 winter resorts in which has been a designer and developer.
Organiser in the Calgary Olympics as well as Salt Lake City ones and it is in the fondation of the winning resort for hosting Future Olympics like the next one in Vancouver and the one after that-- Sochi 2014.
That same company has come up with solution after 18 months work that will label Super Panichishte as a 5 star resort.
3 areas for accommodation are designed for this vision.
The areas are around the village of Panichishte just at the borders with the national Park Rila.
The hotels are to be build low and only with lifts taking the tourists to the ski areas.
No vehicles will be allowed up the mountain.
The heating in the resort is planned be with bio fuel, there will be some persentages from the sale of tickets and lift passes that will go into funding primarily the eco project in the same area only.
100 km of ski runs are planned. The snow cover is probably the most reliable in the whole of Bulgaria, everything so far is sound.
Apart of the doubts about the investors themselves which is still not clear who they are and also the rising questions: where are they based ? and more importantly what is happening with the promise that this project will be very different and will be very transparent.
Some information at the moment just does not sound promising.
So because of that ‘groups against’ Panochishte were formed quickly and now are constantly demanding explanations and threatening with real actions.
For example this weekend along it’s the next meeting of the group with the protecting Logo: ‘’ Nature to be left in BG’’
There is war on all fronts at the moment.
Locals think that this is their saviour, the groups against are pointing out to the negatives from such a project and irreversible damages which can happen.
The end is not visible and the question: Is Rila going to be equal with the Alps? -is still to be found ?
The forecast is: jugging by the speed of decisions in the corridors of power that the answer of the question: what is going to be build in Rila? won’t be definitely given for the foreseeable future.
RODOPI MOUNTAIN/PERELIK Project
In the Rodopi Mountains there are ready for massive expansion as well .
Mega project Perelik is supposed to change the lives of every local .
The plans are for a start of the building in the autumn.
At the moment there are the factual checks from Nature2000 which have stopped the actual start.
The plans are for 217 km of ski runs-figure which if realised will become the leader all of the other ski places in Bulgaria even added all together.
At present:
Bansko is with 43 km,
Borovets is with 38,
Pamporovo will have for the hew season almost for sure 42km
and Vitosha hovers around with 40ish.
The whole of the Perelik project will cost 500million euros.
The construction will be 10 years from start to finish.
There are some yanks investing into this so lets see what is going to be the final result.
The idea is for capacity of 35 thousand skiers, spreading around the villages Stoikite,Gela Mugla,Stikul,Solishta, Smolian etc.
All this with runs from 1500 to only 2130m above the sea level which is a bit warning sign judging the reliability of the snow at this level.
The project is presented by a French consultancy firm which is specialising in developing the infrastructure of the Sochi Olympics
Forecast is for strong 21000 beds when completed on top of the present 20000ish .
PAMPOROVO:
The first 6 seater chair lift will start this winter season from Stoikite. Nearly 3km direct from the village to Snejanka peak with capacity of 2400 pers/hour and with speed of 6m/sec
This will be the fastest chair in Bulgaria. FACT.
The company involved is the French leader Pomagalski.
The contents of the lift have arrived in the area with 46 lorries.
5 million euros is the cost of this lift. There will be and 2 new runs expending the total by 7km from the Peak to Stoikite.
With this Pamporovo will total 42km or ski runs and tracks for cross country. At present the beds are around 15000.
CHEPELARE:
At the beginning of July started the enlargement of Chepelare Ski Centre as well.
The project for the moment is mainly to change the chair with a quad one for abour 5 million euros, because the present one is 25 years old.
The ski runs in Chepelare are 22km plus, The ones for Biathlon and X country another 20ish.The beds around the town are 2000.
PIRIN
3 new areas in Pirin Mountain are panned in the next 5-6 years.
The expectations are these resorts to be serious competitors to the present Bansko.
DOBRINISHTE
Only 6km from Bansko the plans are for developing a ski resort with 23 km of ski runs with gondola of 6km more or less forecasted to reach the hut Gotse Delchev.from there only chair lifts will be build .the preliminary plans are present and last autumn for the very first time in BG history there are calls for forming comity with the all interested parties from local groups from all of the surrounding villages to the experts etc.
According the period of developing the situation is this.
-Around 2 years planning and procedures and the same period for building it.
-Nearly half of the ski terrains will be on the municipality’s land the rest government one.
-Around 40 million euros will be needed for all this.
KULINOTO project.
Again near Bansko is the other one planned for the future.
This time to avoid the battles and delays with the eco organisations, the decision was made to start this project with full ecological investigation first.
The surrounding Peaks have been scanned and measured from all sides and it will be presented full report of the damages in front of the commission for decision.Lets hope that this is the way forward and if approved looks like this one will be the kinder of them all.
Plans in Kulinoto are for 58km of ski runs lifts with length 19km golf course 18holes and capacity 6500skiers per day.
The third centre planned is KARTALA which is above Blagoevgrad.
Around 30 km into Rila Mountain where the old ski run of 2km is. There will be enlargement up to 45km and lifts totalling 15km.
The investment planned is for around 15milion euros.
Ski runs from 1440m and the top station is planned to reach 2200m.Bed capacity for 1500 and lift capacity of 1400 pers/hour.
The interesting thing about this project is that the investors are building it with own money and credit.
6 seat chair are already present the bottom station is nearly ready the ski run is ready with length of 3,5 km
The problems though have arrived and there, with eco warriors wanting explanation and information about the documents and on top of everything some parts of the land has become unclear of who owns it and what rights are present to build on it.So for the moment it is at a station and waiting signal.
ISKROVETE
This is group of satellite places around Borovets and the idea of this project is for series of little ski areas starting from Beli Iskar,Mala Tsurkva, Madjare and on top Govedarci plus the areas around Gulietchica and Maliovitsa. This area has 2 small ski places- Maliovitsa with 2-3 drags and Govedarci with a run and 2 drags just above the village.
This project so far is only an idea and it is not very clear what and who is going to invest in it.
May be a local businessman is going to start it .It is not clear yet though.
Rumours are constant of ideas for building villages on the bottom of the future runs all in a region which is one of the most beautiful part of Rila and with very easy access from Samokov.
It is to be seen how the ski runs planned are going to be linked and how is it going to be allowed development into the Rila National Park.
When it comes to ideas for building ski resorts there are not only the obvious choices for Bulgaria the high mountains Rila Pirin and Rodopi.
After Berkovitsa in the west now for the share of the ski cake has enrolled as a candidate for ski resort and UZANA .
This area wants to become a member of the club of BG winter places.
UZANA
is the geographical centre of Bulgaria.22 km from Gabrovo. The place looks like a giant mountainous gently sloping field at 1300m above the seas level with the top peak there at 1352m.
At the moment UZANA has 8 little runs with rusty drags totalling 8km with the longest run 1km. According to the locals, the winter is definitely there from Xmas until March although the height of 1300m is not something to shout about.
The big problem there is that the whole of the area falls into protected region.
This is The National Park ‘Bulgarka’ and in the current climate, there are slim chances somebody will view this area as a ski potential.
Maybe only as a alternative to the ski –who knows?
Of course there are and other places which want to become Members in the Premier League of BG ski resorts .
As a whole some will say: This for me is the best place -Lets go there now, some will want to see results first, some tourists will only laugh at the ideas some of the BG resorts to become ‘The Alps of the East’.
Whatever it is, this little information is here to help you make a decision.
Again
Lets hope that in the process of developing this country, things wont go over the limit, where it is destroying the nature and actually everything with it.
And lets hope we will all learn from the recent mistakes like the overbuilding of the Black Sea Coast and Bansko where as a direct result the prices have started to have a downward effect , tourists have started to come back disappointed and some of them even are stating they are not going back there again.
CHEERS
PS going on my big one first with quick visit for the concert of Lenny Kravitz in Sofia and then snow skiing and trekking and more, so have a good summer Chaps and let’s hope the winter will be snowy wherever you decide to go.
re: BG SKI INFO.Have a good summer!
Mikey, you have definitely done your homework (or someone has!). It made very interesting reading and will also give back to a lot of people their belief they in BG.Thanks
Andie x
re: BG SKI INFO.Have a good summer!
Mikey..
Well done, your information if correct is succinct and easy to understand (means the same thing). We as mere foreigners cannot understand the complexities of big business, plans obviously have been in place for a while in many areas, many palms of prospective investors exuding sweat in the thought of making lots of money, these investors consider sums that even you would lose sleep over. It basically comes down to this, i as an average English numpty would never consider investing ...
Well done, your information if correct is succinct and easy to understand (means the same thing). We as mere foreigners cannot understand the complexities of big business, plans obviously have been in place for a while in many areas, many palms of prospective investors exuding sweat in the thought of making lots of money, these investors consider sums that even you would lose sleep over. It basically comes down to this, i as an average English numpty would never consider investing ...
Mikey..
Well done, your information if correct is succinct and easy to understand (means the same thing). We as mere foreigners cannot understand the complexities of big business, plans obviously have been in place for a while in many areas, many palms of prospective investors exuding sweat in the thought of making lots of money, these investors consider sums that even you would lose sleep over. It basically comes down to this, i as an average English numpty would never consider investing 30million euro into an eastern europeon ski resort no matter what potential i saw, but someone is, are they stupid, have they not the inside info that you have ?? are not their advisers blind ?? We surely leave the realms of property investment and move on into a completely unknown area for all of us, even you. You seem to have good knowledge and a foresight for what will be, perhaps your time would be better spent in giving said information to those who perhaps would wholly benefit from that. Personally and basically i have no axe to grind i feel let those who are here appreciate what could be with a view that if it can benefit the local population in only the expansion of their own enjoyment and appreciation of the natural surroundings that has to be a good thing. The mountains are a wonderful natural enviroment but they have to be accessed in order for them to be appreciated,. this requires investment and in that a return, lets hope that there is a balance. Perhaps we should explore further the thinking of the average big business investor, perhaps they are being lied to ?? appreciating that most are not individuals but consortiums or financial establishments of long standing. I could continue but i tire, basically as i have said in the past i just want to go skiing, in an area that has escaped the alp syndrome (i worked there for 12 years) i feel Bulgaria can offer this, it affords the best access of any former e eurupeon country, it is not perfect and perhaps requires some serious management but the potential is there, it requires a strong hand, perhaps yours ???
Best regards, Steve C
Well done, your information if correct is succinct and easy to understand (means the same thing). We as mere foreigners cannot understand the complexities of big business, plans obviously have been in place for a while in many areas, many palms of prospective investors exuding sweat in the thought of making lots of money, these investors consider sums that even you would lose sleep over. It basically comes down to this, i as an average English numpty would never consider investing 30million euro into an eastern europeon ski resort no matter what potential i saw, but someone is, are they stupid, have they not the inside info that you have ?? are not their advisers blind ?? We surely leave the realms of property investment and move on into a completely unknown area for all of us, even you. You seem to have good knowledge and a foresight for what will be, perhaps your time would be better spent in giving said information to those who perhaps would wholly benefit from that. Personally and basically i have no axe to grind i feel let those who are here appreciate what could be with a view that if it can benefit the local population in only the expansion of their own enjoyment and appreciation of the natural surroundings that has to be a good thing. The mountains are a wonderful natural enviroment but they have to be accessed in order for them to be appreciated,. this requires investment and in that a return, lets hope that there is a balance. Perhaps we should explore further the thinking of the average big business investor, perhaps they are being lied to ?? appreciating that most are not individuals but consortiums or financial establishments of long standing. I could continue but i tire, basically as i have said in the past i just want to go skiing, in an area that has escaped the alp syndrome (i worked there for 12 years) i feel Bulgaria can offer this, it affords the best access of any former e eurupeon country, it is not perfect and perhaps requires some serious management but the potential is there, it requires a strong hand, perhaps yours ???
Best regards, Steve C
re: BG SKI INFO.Have a good summer!
Excellent report and good advice.You wouldn't buy a property at home without proper legal advice a structural report and without looking at the property. A lot of people seem to buy in Bulgaria just by looking at plans on the internet and are then dissappointed when the property is not what they had expected, you would never do that at home so why do it abroad.
CS
re: BG SKI INFO.Have a good summer!
Back to the drawing board for the super borovets project.
Well for a start, building a gondola from samokov to borovets and then to continue to the top from there is rediculous. I can see the samokov-borovets section (approx.8-9kms) of the gondola being a ghost town. No-one from samokov is going to use it and why would anyone from sofia bother to park up there and take the gondola when they can drive straight past and park up in boro itself!......better to use the money on building the new ...
Well for a start, building a gondola from samokov to borovets and then to continue to the top from there is rediculous. I can see the samokov-borovets section (approx.8-9kms) of the gondola being a ghost town. No-one from samokov is going to use it and why would anyone from sofia bother to park up there and take the gondola when they can drive straight past and park up in boro itself!......better to use the money on building the new ...
Back to the drawing board for the super borovets project.
Well for a start, building a gondola from samokov to borovets and then to continue to the top from there is rediculous. I can see the samokov-borovets section (approx.8-9kms) of the gondola being a ghost town. No-one from samokov is going to use it and why would anyone from sofia bother to park up there and take the gondola when they can drive straight past and park up in boro itself!......better to use the money on building the new gondola from sequoia as the 8-9kms used from samokov to boro will just about get them to the top. And they (the company/investors) will have a better return on people who have bought or stay in sequoia and other apartment complexes near by using the gondola.
Is it back to the drawing board because they have seen a reduction in apartment sales (in general) and wounder just how many apartments they need to sell based around the new gondola currently under construction outside of samokov to make it worth it?
It appears to me that due to the property market being as it is........there idea has made them think twice.
Lets face it.........building a gondola for 8-9kms in lenght at an altitude of 1000m to 1300m is crazy.
If anyone is looking at investing in realestate a position in or near the centre of boro would be a wise move as the infrastructure is already there so as not to rely on "super Borovets" and if the project does succeed with extra runs etc, well then that will be a bonus.
Well for a start, building a gondola from samokov to borovets and then to continue to the top from there is rediculous. I can see the samokov-borovets section (approx.8-9kms) of the gondola being a ghost town. No-one from samokov is going to use it and why would anyone from sofia bother to park up there and take the gondola when they can drive straight past and park up in boro itself!......better to use the money on building the new gondola from sequoia as the 8-9kms used from samokov to boro will just about get them to the top. And they (the company/investors) will have a better return on people who have bought or stay in sequoia and other apartment complexes near by using the gondola.
Is it back to the drawing board because they have seen a reduction in apartment sales (in general) and wounder just how many apartments they need to sell based around the new gondola currently under construction outside of samokov to make it worth it?
It appears to me that due to the property market being as it is........there idea has made them think twice.
Lets face it.........building a gondola for 8-9kms in lenght at an altitude of 1000m to 1300m is crazy.
If anyone is looking at investing in realestate a position in or near the centre of boro would be a wise move as the infrastructure is already there so as not to rely on "super Borovets" and if the project does succeed with extra runs etc, well then that will be a bonus.
re: BG SKI INFO.Have a good summer!
The reason that the Municipality want the Gondola to start in Samokov is to bring some prosperity to the town. Sorry if you think this is ridiculous Andy!
re: BG SKI INFO.Have a good summer!
What an amazing research!!!! Such things are usually sold for hard cash!!! Great job!re: BG SKI INFO.Have a good summer!
Thanks Mikeygreetings Tanjette
re: BG SKI INFO.Have a good summer!
Copy - Paste -------- very useful tool eh Mikey
Pete
re: BG SKI INFO.Have a good summer!
Point taken Pete - but its knowing where to go to obtain this info in the first place. Either way, it is a a very good report especially as regards Pamporovo and the surrounding area - whoops - mustn't be seen as promoting, must I .... 
